Mother Brain Room/Low Ammo - Revision history

Tropylium: /* Later phases of Mother Brain */ GT code

2025-02-20T20:44:14Z

Later phases of Mother Brain: GT code

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:44, 20 February 2025
Line 78:		Line 78:

	=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===		=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===
	Mother Brain's 2nd phase has 18000 health, and in low ammo situations must be defeated primarily with [[Charge Beam]]. In its absense, she requires ammo ranging from 180 Missiles to 60 Super Missiles (the latter number only obtainable in randomizers and other mods). Combined with ammo required for MB1 and the glass jar gives requirements of ammo between 216+0 and 0+76 to get through the fight. Typically seen Missile + Super Missile capacities include the following:		Mother Brain's 2nd phase has 18000 health, and in low ammo situations must be defeated primarily with [[Charge Beam]]. In its absense, she requires ammo ranging from 180 Missiles to 60 Super Missiles (the latter number only obtainable with [[Golden Torizo Code]] and in randomizers and other mods). Combined with ammo required for MB1 and the glass jar gives requirements of ammo between 216+0 and 0+76 to get through the fight. Typically seen Missile + Super Missile capacities include the following:
	: 130+30   •   115+35   •   100+40   •   85+45   •   70+50   •   55+55   •   40+60   •   35+65		: 130+30   •   115+35   •   100+40   •   85+45   •   70+50   •   55+55   •   40+60   •   35+65
	all of which have 400 damage of lenience. With Zebetite Skip, they allow an approach already from Rinka Shaft using one Super Missile on the door. Loadouts from 100+40 up are sufficient for clearing of doors and Zebetites + a single ammo refill, in the absense of a Zebetite Skip option.		all of which have 400 damage of lenience. With Zebetite Skip, they allow an approach already from Rinka Shaft using one Super Missile on the door. Loadouts from 100+40 up are sufficient for clearing of doors and Zebetites + a single ammo refill, in the absense of a Zebetite Skip option.

Tropylium: /* Later phases of Mother Brain */

2025-02-03T15:28:16Z

Later phases of Mother Brain

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:28, 3 February 2025
Line 78:		Line 78:

	=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===		=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===
	Mother Brain's 2nd phase has 18000 health, and in low ammo situations must be defeated primarily with [[Charge Beam]]. In its absense, she requires ammo ranging from 180 Missiles to 60 Super Missiles (the latter number only obtainable in randomizers and other mods). Combined with ammo required for MB1 gives requirements of ammo between ~~210~~+0 and 0+70 to get through the fight.		Mother Brain's 2nd phase has 18000 health, and in low ammo situations must be defeated primarily with [[Charge Beam]]. In its absense, she requires ammo ranging from 180 Missiles to 60 Super Missiles (the latter number only obtainable in randomizers and other mods). Combined with ammo required for MB1 and the glass jar gives requirements of ammo between 216+0 and 0+76 to get through the fight. Typically seen Missile + Super Missile capacities include the following:
			: 130+30   •   115+35   •   100+40   •   85+45   •   70+50   •   55+55   •   40+60   •   35+65
			all of which have 400 damage of lenience. With Zebetite Skip, they allow an approach already from Rinka Shaft using one Super Missile on the door. Loadouts from 100+40 up are sufficient for clearing of doors and Zebetites + a single ammo refill, in the absense of a Zebetite Skip option.

			For completeness, no-refill loadouts that destroy all Zebetites include the following:
			:225+30   •   210+35   •   195+40   •   180+45   •   165+50   •   150+55   •   135+60   •   120+65   •   105+70   •   90+75

			DPS considerations:
	* Saved up Missiles provide higher DPS than any Charge Beam combination without [[Plasma Beam]]. ('''''To check''': also higher than plain Charge+Plasma?'')		* Saved up Missiles provide higher DPS than any Charge Beam combination without [[Plasma Beam]]. ('''''To check''': also higher than plain Charge+Plasma?'')
	* Saved up Super Missiles provide higher DPS than any Charge Beam combination short of optimal usage of [[Full Beam]] (Charge+[[Ice Beam\|Ice]]+[[Wave Beam\|Wave]]+Plasma).		* Saved up Super Missiles provide higher DPS than any Charge Beam combination short of optimal usage of [[Full Beam]] (Charge+[[Ice Beam\|Ice]]+[[Wave Beam\|Wave]]+Plasma).

Tropylium: /* Mother Brain room */

2025-02-03T14:58:58Z

Mother Brain room

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:58, 3 February 2025
Line 75:		Line 75:

	To completely destroy the jar using one or more Super Missiles is never strategically optimal. This can still be situationally optimal if MB ends up being reached with between 13 and 17 Missiles, between 1 and 5 Super Missiles, and a maximum Missile cap between 20 and 30 — such that immediately backtracking to refill would not provide sufficient ammo for ''both'' breaking open the jar and defeating MB1 in one round. This however implies Missiles were earlier either missed, or used on Zebetites where Super Missiles should have been, at least for purposes of DPS.		To completely destroy the jar using one or more Super Missiles is never strategically optimal. This can still be situationally optimal if MB ends up being reached with between 13 and 17 Missiles, between 1 and 5 Super Missiles, and a maximum Missile cap between 20 and 30 — such that immediately backtracking to refill would not provide sufficient ammo for ''both'' breaking open the jar and defeating MB1 in one round. This however implies Missiles were earlier either missed, or used on Zebetites where Super Missiles should have been, at least for purposes of DPS.
	:<small>E.g. 17+5 ammo, with a Missile cap of 20, allows using 17+1 ammo to destroy the jar, then returning after refill to defeat MB1 with 18+4 ammo. This however implies 3 Missiles, and at least 2 Supers, were spent after the previous refill on the approach to MB, to defeat at least one Zebetite. Using instead 0+4 ammo on this Zebetite, followed by 18+0 ammo on the jar, would have been more effective.</small>		:<small>E.g. 17+5 ammo, with a Missile cap of 20, allows using 17+1 ammo to destroy the jar, then returning after refill to defeat MB1 with 18+4 ammo. This however implies 3 Missiles, and at least 3 Supers, were spent after the previous refill on the approach to MB, to defeat at least one Zebetite. Using instead 0+4 ammo on this Zebetite, followed by 18+0 ammo on the jar, would have been more effective, and still leaves 18+4 ammo on MB1.</small>

	=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===		=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===

Tropylium: /* Mother Brain room */

2025-02-03T14:54:54Z

Mother Brain room

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:54, 3 February 2025
Line 69:		Line 69:
	\|}		\|}

	Combinations in gray do not improve on loadouts with lower Missile capacity, but they can be optimal play if, after defeating the final Zebetite, the player has at least 18 ammo left to also destroy the jar before returning for a final refill. It can be even optimal to finish destroying the jar using one or more, but at most nine Super Missiles, before returning to defeat MB1 with a refilled supply of Missiles.

	Combinations in red will never come up in optimal play: using ammo to destroy the jar would call for additional Super Missiles having been available earlier, and end up using altogether ''more'' ammo than it would to merely break the jar and defeat MB1 in one go. Put otherwise: any ammo loadout between 8+10 and 0+18 would allow destroying the jar, but since 10 Super Missiles suffice to defeat MB1, the player should simply do this instead. Indeed some loadouts too low to fully destroy the jar but high in Super Missiles, such as 6+10 or 0+16, are seen to suffice also.		Combinations in red will never come up in optimal play: using ammo to destroy the jar would call for additional Super Missiles having been available earlier, and end up using altogether ''more'' ammo than it would to merely break the jar and defeat MB1 in one go. Put otherwise: any ammo loadout between 8+10 and 0+18 would allow destroying the jar, but since 10 Super Missiles suffice to defeat MB1, the player should simply do this instead. Indeed some loadouts too low to fully destroy the jar but high in Super Missiles, such as 6+10 or 0+16, are seen to suffice also.

			Combinations in gray do not improve on loadouts with lower Missile capacity, but they can be optimal play if, after defeating the final Zebetite, the player has at least 18 Missiles left to also destroy the jar before returning for a final refill.

			To completely destroy the jar using one or more Super Missiles is never strategically optimal. This can still be situationally optimal if MB ends up being reached with between 13 and 17 Missiles, between 1 and 5 Super Missiles, and a maximum Missile cap between 20 and 30 — such that immediately backtracking to refill would not provide sufficient ammo for ''both'' breaking open the jar and defeating MB1 in one round. This however implies Missiles were earlier either missed, or used on Zebetites where Super Missiles should have been, at least for purposes of DPS.
			:<small>E.g. 17+5 ammo, with a Missile cap of 20, allows using 17+1 ammo to destroy the jar, then returning after refill to defeat MB1 with 18+4 ammo. This however implies 3 Missiles, and at least 2 Supers, were spent after the previous refill on the approach to MB, to defeat at least one Zebetite. Using instead 0+4 ammo on this Zebetite, followed by 18+0 ammo on the jar, would have been more effective.</small>

	=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===		=== Later phases of Mother Brain ===

Tropylium: /* 20+5 */

2025-02-03T00:45:52Z

20+5

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:45, 3 February 2025
Line 158:		Line 158:
	# Destroy the 2nd Zebetite with 11 Missiles, refill.		# Destroy the 2nd Zebetite with 11 Missiles, refill.
	# Destroy the 3rd and 4th Zebetites with 11+0 and 8+1 ammo (in either order), refill.		# Destroy the 3rd and 4th Zebetites with 11+0 and 8+1 ammo (in either order), refill.
	# ~~Break open~~ MB's jar with 18 Missiles, refill.		# Destroy MB's jar with 18 Missiles, refill.
	# Defeat MB1 with 18+4 ammo.		# Defeat MB1 with 18+4 ammo.
	\|		\|

Tropylium: /* 30+0 */

2025-02-03T00:45:02Z

30+0

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:45, 3 February 2025
Line 140:		Line 140:
	# Destroy the 4th Zebetite with 11 Missiles and MB's jar with 18 Missiles, refill.		# Destroy the 4th Zebetite with 11 Missiles and MB's jar with 18 Missiles, refill.
	# Defeat MB1 with 30 Missiles.		# Defeat MB1 with 30 Missiles.

			=== 25+2 ===
			Four pass-thrus and four refills are required.
			# Open all doors with 13 Missiles, refill.
			# Destroy the 1st and 2nd Zebetites with 11 Missiles each, refill.
			# Destroy the 3rd and 4th Zebetites with 11 Missiles each, refill.
			# Destroy MB's jar with 18 Missiles, refill.
			# Defeat MB1 with 24+2 ammo.

	=== 20+5 ===		=== 20+5 ===

Tropylium: /* 30+0 */ no this isn't better

2025-02-03T00:40:55Z

30+0: no this isn't better

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:40, 3 February 2025
Line 139:		Line 139:
	# Destroy the 2nd and 3rd Zebetites with 11 Missiles each, refill.		# Destroy the 2nd and 3rd Zebetites with 11 Missiles each, refill.
	# Destroy the 4th Zebetite with 11 Missiles and MB's jar with 18 Missiles, refill.		# Destroy the 4th Zebetite with 11 Missiles and MB's jar with 18 Missiles, refill.
	~~# Defeat MB1 with 30 Missiles.~~

	~~If you have less than 24 but also 5 or more Missiles on hand when first entering Lower Tourian, it will be slighly more efficient to follow this route:~~
	~~# Open Seaweed Room door, refill.~~
	~~# Open remaining doors with 8 Missiles + destroy the first two Zebetites with 11 Missiles each, refill.~~
	~~# Destroy the next two Zebetites with 11 Missiles each, refill.~~
	~~# Destroy MB's jar fully with 18 Missiles, refill.~~
	# Defeat MB1 with 30 Missiles.		# Defeat MB1 with 30 Missiles.

Tropylium: /* Backtracking from Mother Brain room */

2025-02-03T00:16:31Z

Backtracking from Mother Brain room

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:16, 3 February 2025
Line 108:		Line 108:
	11 Missiles less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the first Zebetite but still only a single ammo refill. In the following loadouts, all doors should still be opened with Missiles.		11 Missiles less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the first Zebetite but still only a single ammo refill. In the following loadouts, all doors should still be opened with Missiles.
	: '''69+0'''   •   66+1   •   63+2   •   60+3   •   57+4   •   '''54+5'''   …   42+9   •   '''39+10'''   …   27+14   •   '''24+15'''		: '''69+0'''   •   66+1   •   63+2   •   60+3   •   57+4   •   '''54+5'''   …   42+9   •   '''39+10'''   …   27+14   •   '''24+15'''
			In 21+16, the Gadora should be defeated with a Super Missile. After refilling, the 2nd runthru in this plays identically to 24+15.<br/>
	In 19+16, ~~one red door~~ should be ~~opened~~ with a Super Missile; in 14+17, ~~both should; these critically bring required Missiles to the next-lower capacities (~~with ~~only Missiles used on doors, 21+16 and 19~~+17 ~~would be required)~~.		In 21+17, no other speedup over this is available than opening one further door with a Super Missile. Already 20+17 requires two refills.

	11 Missiles yet less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the second Zebetite, again opening all doors with Missiles.		11 Missiles yet less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the second Zebetite, again opening all doors with Missiles.
	: '''58+0'''   •   55+1   •   52+2   •   49+3   •   46+4   •   '''43+5'''   •   40+6   •   37+7		: '''58+0'''   •   55+1   •   52+2   •   49+3   •   46+4   •   '''43+5'''   •   40+6   •   37+7   •   35+8
			In 32+9, the Gadora should be defeated with a Super Missile. After refilling, the 2nd runthru in this plays identically to 35+8.<br/>
	In 32+8, ~~again one red door~~ should be ~~opened~~ with a Super Missile ~~(giving 35+7 on~~ the ~~runback);~~ in 27+~~9, both should (30+7 on the runback); in~~ '''24+10'''~~, also the Gadora should (25+7 on the runback).~~		In '''XX+10''' ………

	Arguably the most balanced ~~loadout~~ is '''47+0''', ~~which calls~~ for ~~backtracking after~~ the ~~third Zebetite~~.		Arguably the most balanced loadouts are those that call for backtracking after the third Zebetite, as approximately the same damage is dealt on both trips. In all loadouts after the 1st, the Gadora can/should be defeated with a Super Missile.
			:'''47+0'''   •   47+1   •   44+2   •   '''38+5'''   •   35+7   •   '''30+10'''
			The related 44+3, 41+4, 38+6, 35+6, 32+9 provide no improvement other than higher DPS, as half the Super Missiles must be saved for the 2nd runthru.

	== Example loadouts at 2–3 refills ==		== Example loadouts at 2–3 refills ==

Tropylium: /* Zero to one-refill loadouts */

2025-02-02T21:59:53Z

Zero to one-refill loadouts

Tropylium: /* No backtracking */

2025-02-02T21:35:32Z

No backtracking

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:35, 2 February 2025
Line 83:		Line 83:
	== Zero to one-refill loadouts ==		== Zero to one-refill loadouts ==
	=== No backtracking ===		=== No backtracking ===
	Beating Lower Tourian with no ammo refills requires minimally '''93 ~~missiles~~''' (13 for doors + 44 for Zebetites + 36 for one-round MB1). Initial ammo refill after Seaweed Room door but no backtracking lowers this to 88~~. One Super Missile, i.e. 88+1, accomplishes the same~~.		Beating Lower Tourian with no ammo refills whatsoever requires minimally '''93 Missiles''' (13 for doors + 44 for Zebetites + 36 for one-round MB1). Initial ammo refill after Seaweed Room door but no backtracking lowers this to '''88'''.

	With any Super Missiles on hand to deal with red doors (preferrably also the Gadora), but ''at least 14 Missiles'' to deal with MB's jar and optimal damage against Zebetites, this reduces to ammo equivalent to 8900 damage. This includes the following counts with no refills ~~(loadouts in bold use Super Missiles equivalent to some full capacity)~~:		With any Super Missiles on hand to deal with red doors (preferrably also the Gadora), but ''at least 14 Missiles'' to deal with MB's jar and optimal damage against Zebetites, this reduces to ammo equivalent to 8900 damage. This includes the following counts with no refills:
	: 83+2   •   80+3   •   77+4   •   '''74+5'''   …   62+9   •   '''59+10'''   …   47+14   •   '''44+15'''   …   32+19   •   '''29+20'''   …   17+24   •   '''14+25'''		: 83+2   •   80+3   •   77+4   •   '''74+5'''   …   62+9   •   '''59+10'''   …   47+14   •   '''44+15'''   …   32+19   •   '''29+20'''   …   17+24   •   '''14+25'''
	With 0+4 Zebetite kills:   12+26   •   10+27   •   8+28   •   6+29   •   '''5+30'''   …   '''0+35'''		With 0+4 Zebetite kills:   12+26   •   10+27   •   8+28   •   6+29   •   '''5+30'''   …   '''0+35'''
Line 93:		Line 93:
	With 0+4 Zebetite kills:   <span style="color:gray">'''12+25'''</span>   •   10+26   •   <span style="color:gray">8+27</span>   •   <span style="color:gray">6+28</span>   •   5+29		With 0+4 Zebetite kills:   <span style="color:gray">'''12+25'''</span>   •   10+26   •   <span style="color:gray">8+27</span>   •   <span style="color:gray">6+28</span>   •   5+29

	Loadouts in gray are not improvements over bringing in the corresponding maximum capacity of Missiles; this is seen to include in particular all relevant full ammo capacity loadouts.		Loadouts in '''bold''' use Super Missiles equivalent to some full capacity.<br/>
			Loadouts in <span style="color:gray">gray</span> are not improvements over bringing in the corresponding maximum capacity of Missiles; this is seen to include in particular all relevant full ammo capacity loadouts.

	=== Light backtracking ===		=== Light backtracking ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:59, 2 February 2025
Line 98:		Line 98:
	=== Light backtracking ===		=== Light backtracking ===
	3 Missiles can be subtracted by an initial (pre-health refill) trip to both open Seaweed Room and defeat the Gadora using Missiles. This requires a Missile cap of at least 10.		3 Missiles can be subtracted by an initial (pre-health refill) trip to both open Seaweed Room and defeat the Gadora using Missiles. This requires a Missile cap of at least 10.
	: '''85+0'''   •   80+1   •   77+2   •   74+3   •   71+4   •   '''68+5'''   …   56+9   •   '''53+10'''   …   41+14   •   '''38+15'''   …   26+19   •   '''23+20'''   …   14+23		: '''85+0'''   •   80+1   •   <span style="color:gray">77+2</span>   •   74+3   •   <span style="color:gray">71+4</span>   •   '''68+5'''   …   <span style="color:gray">56+9</span>   •   '''53+10'''   …   <span style="color:gray">41+14</span>   •   '''38+15'''   …   <span style="color:gray">26+19</span>   •   '''23+20'''   …   14+23
	With 0+4 Zebetite kills:   12+24   •   '''10+25'''.		With 0+4 Zebetite kills:   <span style="color:gray">12+24</span>   •   '''10+25'''. In the last, 6 Missiles must be used on MB's jar and 2+3 ammo on two Zebetites.

	3 more Missiles can be subtracted by extending the initial trip to Rinka Shaft. This requires a Missile cap of at least 15.		3 more Missiles can be subtracted by extending the initial trip to Rinka Shaft. This requires a Missile cap of at least 15.
	: '''80+0'''   •   77+1   •   74+2   •   71+3   •   68+4   •   '''65+5'''   …   53+9   •   '''50+10'''   …   38+14   •   '''35+15'''   …   23+19   •   '''20+20'''   •   18+21   •   14+22		: '''80+0'''   •   <span style="color:gray">77+1</span>   •   74+2   •   <span style="color:gray">71+3</span>   •   68+4   •   '''65+5'''   …   53+9   •   '''50+10'''   …   38+14   •   '''35+15'''   …   23+19   •   '''20+20'''   •   18+21   •   14+22

	=== Backtracking from Mother Brain room ===		=== Backtracking from Mother Brain room ===

	11 Missiles less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the first Zebetite but still only a single ammo refill. In the following loadouts, all doors should still be opened with Missiles.		11 Missiles less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the first Zebetite but still only a single ammo refill. In the following loadouts, all doors should still be opened with Missiles.
	: 63+2   •   60+3   •   57+4   •   '''54+5'''   …   42+9   •   '''39+10'''   …   27+14   •   '''24+15'''		: '''69+0'''   •   66+1   •   63+2   •   60+3   •   57+4   •   '''54+5'''   …   42+9   •   '''39+10'''   …   27+14   •   '''24+15'''

	In 19+16, one red door should be opened with a Super Missile; in 14+17, both should; these critically bring required Missiles to the next-lower capacities (with only Missiles used on doors, 21+16 and 19+17 would be required).		In 19+16, one red door should be opened with a Super Missile; in 14+17, both should; these critically bring required Missiles to the next-lower capacities (with only Missiles used on doors, 21+16 and 19+17 would be required).

	11 Missiles yet less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the second Zebetite, again opening all doors with Missiles.		11 Missiles yet less gives loadouts with optimal backtracking after the second Zebetite, again opening all doors with Missiles.
	: 52+2   •   49+3   •   46+4   •   '''43+5'''   •   40+6   •   37+7		: '''58+0'''   •   55+1   •   52+2   •   49+3   •   46+4   •   '''43+5'''   •   40+6   •   37+7

	In 32+8, again one red door should be opened with a Super Missile; in 27+9, both should; in '''24+10''', also the Gadora should.		In 32+8, again one red door should be opened with a Super Missile (giving 35+7 on the runback); in 27+9, both should (30+7 on the runback); in '''24+10''', also the Gadora should (25+7 on the runback).

	Arguably the most balanced loadout is ''47+0'', which calls for backtracking after the third Zebetite.		Arguably the most balanced loadout is '''47+0''', which calls for backtracking after the third Zebetite.

	== Example loadouts at 2–3 refills ==		== Example loadouts at 2–3 refills ==